Comments on: Consolation Prizes http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/ Sliding down the banisters of the ivory tower. Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:09:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Betty http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/#comment-1863 Betty Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:02:07 +0000 http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/?p=194#comment-1863 <strong>Betty...</strong> kinda makes you wonder.... Betty…

kinda makes you wonder….

]]> By: Iqra’i: Breaking news - Sarah Palin is McCain’s running mate. http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/#comment-1077 Iqra’i: Breaking news - Sarah Palin is McCain’s running mate. Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:40:28 +0000 http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/?p=194#comment-1077 [...] price for the women’s movement. I was recently criticized by feminist friends by blogging here that a woman VP candidate, after the gender issues that have dominated coverage of Hilary’s [...] [...] price for the women’s movement. I was recently criticized by feminist friends by blogging here that a woman VP candidate, after the gender issues that have dominated coverage of Hilary’s [...]

]]> By: Chris Pagliarella http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/#comment-1013 Chris Pagliarella Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:37:40 +0000 http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/?p=194#comment-1013 Kate, I'm glad to read your opinion on this, because before now, I couldn't really grasp why the choice of a woman other than Senator Clinton would be a negative to her supporters. My only concern is that I feel the vice presidency does count, and I do not want to see a more inexperienced candidate like Governor Tim Kaine take the post over Governor Sebelius just because, as David said, they were worried about avoiding the appearance of affirmative action. Kate, I’m glad to read your opinion on this, because before now, I couldn’t really grasp why the choice of a woman other than Senator Clinton would be a negative to her supporters.

My only concern is that I feel the vice presidency does count, and I do not want to see a more inexperienced candidate like Governor Tim Kaine take the post over Governor Sebelius just because, as David said, they were worried about avoiding the appearance of affirmative action.

]]> By: David Broockman http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/#comment-1010 David Broockman Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:46:03 +0000 http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/?p=194#comment-1010 But isn't there a difference between it being viewed as independent of demographic choices and it actually being so? Doesn't the world in which Obama could pick her on the merits exist? (I hope so, but we'll find out soon!) I don't think you draw a clear enough distinction between popular wisdom, its sources, and your own. But I know you realize it in real life, so it's a moot point. :) On the second point though, yes, I do agree that it's sad. I suppose the question is - which I'm really not sure - is it better to appoint the woman on the merits and weather the storm of doubt or to avoid doing it to avoid the appearance of affirmative action? But isn’t there a difference between it being viewed as independent of demographic choices and it actually being so? Doesn’t the world in which Obama could pick her on the merits exist? (I hope so, but we’ll find out soon!) I don’t think you draw a clear enough distinction between popular wisdom, its sources, and your own. But I know you realize it in real life, so it’s a moot point. :)
On the second point though, yes, I do agree that it’s sad. I suppose the question is - which I’m really not sure - is it better to appoint the woman on the merits and weather the storm of doubt or to avoid doing it to avoid the appearance of affirmative action?

]]> By: Kate Maltby http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/#comment-1009 Kate Maltby Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:17:54 +0000 http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/?p=194#comment-1009 So clearly I wrote this far too late at night (UK time) to be at my most articulate. But there is no contradiction in rejecting affirmative action, but then expressing a hope that one day a woman will make it on her own. The key point is that the VP slot is always about covering demographic bases more than it is about personal merit. And given the immense shadow Hilary's defeat has cast across the issue of women in politics, I don't think that the VP appointment will ever be viewed as independent of it. I never said, nor did I imply, that I myself thought there were no women who deserved the job on merit alone. I'm merely concerned that a woman like Sebelius would fail to get the plaudits she deserves if she is given the job for the wrong reasons - or even perceived to have done so. And as for the counter argument that you, David, love on her own merits, as a delegate to the DNC I doubt your level of expertise is representative of the wider American public. Which is, of course, to your credit. I'm just worried that vast numbers of people will see a woman appointed, know little about her genuine qualifications, and jump to the conclusion that affirmative action is in full dangerous swing. So clearly I wrote this far too late at night (UK time) to be at my most articulate. But there is no contradiction in rejecting affirmative action, but then expressing a hope that one day a woman will make it on her own. The key point is that the VP slot is always about covering demographic bases more than it is about personal merit. And given the immense shadow Hilary’s defeat has cast across the issue of women in politics, I don’t think that the VP appointment will ever be viewed as independent of it.

I never said, nor did I imply, that I myself thought there were no women who deserved the job on merit alone. I’m merely concerned that a woman like Sebelius would fail to get the plaudits she deserves if she is given the job for the wrong reasons - or even perceived to have done so. And as for the counter argument that you, David, love on her own merits, as a delegate to the DNC I doubt your level of expertise is representative of the wider American public. Which is, of course, to your credit. I’m just worried that vast numbers of people will see a woman appointed, know little about her genuine qualifications, and jump to the conclusion that affirmative action is in full dangerous swing.

]]> By: David Broockman http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/2008/08/21/consolation-prizes/#comment-1008 David Broockman Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:26:53 +0000 http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/?p=194#comment-1008 Um, what? I love Kathleen Sebelius and have for a long time, for example, because she's friggin awesome. You're pulling one of these "it's widely accepted that" common belief fallacies. Do you really not think there are women then deserve it on the merits such that it would be "blatant confirmation?" <i>Really?</i> On the more substantive point, I do agree that women should be put in jobs that count, but aren't you contradicting yourself? First you say that affirmative action just inspires resentment, then you ask for something better than the VP slot on behalf of a demographic group. Um, what?

I love Kathleen Sebelius and have for a long time, for example, because she’s friggin awesome. You’re pulling one of these “it’s widely accepted that” common belief fallacies. Do you really not think there are women then deserve it on the merits such that it would be “blatant confirmation?” Really?

On the more substantive point, I do agree that women should be put in jobs that count, but aren’t you contradicting yourself? First you say that affirmative action just inspires resentment, then you ask for something better than the VP slot on behalf of a demographic group.

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